Disclaimer: About This Blog

THIS BLOG IS: my personal journey of how I am rethinking some of my spiritual beliefs.
THIS BLOG IS NOT: intended to point fingers at people who I think are wrong.
I do not believe the final judgement will be based on how many correct answers we get on a theology exam. I believe many people throughout history have had genuine relationships with our Lord and Saviour Jesus, despite holding questionable beliefs and practices. I make no claim to having it all figured out or being your judge. If we end up disagreeing over these topics I pray we can find a way to demonstrate grace.

Sunday, August 30, 2009

Does God Hate the World?

Yikes... I'm having a hard time with this... it saddens me that some hold such a negative view of my Father, and are trying to spread this message about my Father. I don't believe this message is what my Father's lost children need to hear.

OK... this first one is a bit extreme, but I believe some caution should be taken as this is where the road of Calvinism sometimes goes:


I guess if you are OK believing that man is totally depraved and incapable of choosing to follow God... and that God has chosen that a few elect will be saved, and that He has chosen that the masses should be tormented in hell for eternity... it's not too far of a leap to believe that God hates the world.... but thankfully most Calvinists don't take it this far.

But then I was wondering what some other influential Calvinists' positions were...

Mark Driscoll:
"The whole “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” -- that’s the wrong place to start. “God hates you and its going to go really really bad forever!” – hey now that is true…"

(and earlier)

"It says it in Psalm 5:5 “I hate -- or it says, You hate all who do evil”. Now let this settle. People say things like “God doesn’t hate anybody!” Yes he does! He hates tonnes of people! He does. Some people say “that’s not fair”. Course its fair! You hate people! And God’s far better than you and he knows a lot more people!"


Jonathan Edwards
"The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much in the same way one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect, over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: His wrath towards you burns like fire: He looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but to be cast into the fire: He is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in His sight: you are ten thousand times more abominable in His sight than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours." (Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God, July 8, 1741)
John Piper
"But it wasn't always so for John Piper. There was a time when the mountain of granite was not under me but over me, ready to fall and crush me. It was the mountain of God's wrath against my sin. God hated me in my sin.

God Hates Unrepentant Sinners

Yes, I think we need to go the full biblical length and say that God hates unrepentant sinners. If I were to soften it, as we so often do, and say that God hates sin, most of you would immediately translate that to mean: he hates sin but loves the sinner. But Psalm 5:5 says, "The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers." And Psalm 11:5 says, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates him that loves violence."
So these guys seem to agree that God hates sinners.

Does the logic then go that I should hate sinners too because God does?

Yes there are verses that talk of God's wrath, and hate towards sin and sinners. (Mostly in the OT).

But I believe we need to emphasize the following:

God is love:
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. (1 John 4:7-9 NIV)
God loves the world (John 3:16).

God's love towards sinners:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8 NIV)
I believe the description of love 1 Corinthians 13 should apply to my God as well... so for the sake of this discussion I'm going to replace 'I' with 'God'.

1 Corinthians 13 (modified some)
If God speaks in the tongues of men and of angels, but has not love, He is only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If God has the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if God has a faith that can move mountains, but has not love, He is nothing. If God give all He possess to the poor and surrenders His body to the flames, but has not love, He gains nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails.
... (some skipped) ...
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Am I wrong in substituting God into the passage above? If God is love, then I think not.

Please don't portray my God as anything but a God of love!

Think about the story of the prodigal son... did the Father ever hate the prodigal son? If my children ever left me and ignored all my advice would I ever hate them? No! And I believe our heavenly Father has an even stronger love for all His children, whether they are in a restored relationship with Him or not.

OK... that's enough for now... I may look at more verses later... I'm seeing that this is a larger topic than I originally thought.


wieger kooistra said...

Als Jezus tot Johannes de doper komt om gedoopt te worden profeteert hij;zie het Lam God's dat de zonde der wereld wegneemt .
Als ik een roman lees , kijk ik uit naar hoe het afloopt . In het oude testament waren nog heel veel gedachten God'verborgen of zoals de bijbel het ook wel uitdrukt onder een bedekking . Maar op Zijn tijd werd de volle raad God's openbaar . Juist door theologen is daar opnieuw een bedekking opgelegd. Opnieuw wordt in veel kerken iedere zondag de wet voorgelezen en alzo de kinderen God's opnieuw onder de wet gebracht en in feite losgemaakt van Christus . Echter in het nieuwe verbond in Christus is het niet meer ; Doe dat, maar geloof en gij zult leven .
De apostel Paulus zegt : Dat Christus voor onze zonden is gestorven en niet alleen voor de onze, maar voor die der gehele wereld .
Dus God heeft voor eens en voor altijd het zonde probleem opgelost !Het hele probleem en ook de gevolgen , de straf en het totaal van God verlaten zijn wordt op de schouders van Christus gelegd opdat wij nimmermeer van God verlaten zouden zijn .Er is echter wel een maar aan verbonden , de Zondaar moet wel kenbaar maken deel te willen hebben aan dat offer van Christus door Hem aan te nemen als persoonlijke advocaat en verlosser .Ik geloof dat het offer dat Christus voldoende is geweest om ieder mens van binnen en van buiten volkomen te reinigen .
Maar als een mens niet gereinigd is , blijft de zonde op hem en zal hij nooit in de nabijheid van de Heilige God kunnen zijn . En dus eeuwig van God verlaten zijn , een plaats of situatie , daar zou ik me niet aan wagen om mij daar over uit te spreken , maar , voor eeuwig buiten Gods liefde en goedheid te zijn lijkt mij meer dan verschrikkelijk .
God's zegen toegebeden
Wieger Kooistra

Jonathan said...

(thanks Wieger for the comment - google translation)

If Jesus comes to John the Baptist to be baptized he prophesies, see the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world.
When I read a novel, I look forward to how it ends. In the Old Testament were very much thought or God'verborgen also known as the Bible puts it under a cover. But his time was the whole counsel of God publicly. Theologians precisely because there is a new coating applied. Again, many churches every Sunday and read the law so the children of God once again brought under the law and in fact separated from Christ. However, in the new covenant in Christ is not, do that, but faith and ye shall live.
The Apostle Paul says that Christ died for our sins and not for ours only, but for the whole world.
So God has once and for all the sin problem! The problem and the consequences, the penalty and the total of God abandoned on the shoulders of Christ made that we never forsaken by God would be. However, there is a related but the sinner must do to express their intent to have that sacrifice of Christ to accept Him as personal savior and a lawyer. I believe that Christ's sacrifice was enough for everyone inside and outside completely cleaning.
But if a man is not cleansed, the sin remains on him and he will never be near the Holy God can be. And so eternally forsaken by God, a place or situation where I would not try to talk to me about it, but, forever out of God's love and goodness seems to me more than terrible.
God bless toegebeden
Wieger Kooistra